Kek

[u/Interesting_Tale]

[u/oops_all_memes]

I see no issue with historical accuracy — it's Odyssey. We'll see sea monsters, cyclopses (what's plural for cyclops?), witches, gods. Historical accuracy was never in the picture. I think people crying "historical accuracy" are just racists

I think I should clarify — terrible costumes and historical accuracy are two separate things. I want certain level of immersion, the costumes look ass and I'll think about the costumes being ass the entire time if I go see the movie

And I see no problem in a black actor/actress playing a character. My favorite piece of media on greek mythology is Hades and if you played that game... half of the pantheon are black people

I don't like this particular actress but it's neither here nor there since that's not my issue with the discourse (or the movie)

I simply refuse to believe that the casting was made without them knowing this will cause a shitstorm. And I think they did it intentionally anticipating the shitstorm. It's free publicity and allows for certain details to be overlooked. And I don't think that the political climate worldwide is healthy enough to fan the flames when it's not needed

[u/WhatsTheHoldup → u/oops_all_memes]

I see no issue with historical accuracy — it's Odyssey. We'll see sea monsters, cyclopses (what's plural for cyclops?), witches, gods. Historical accuracy was never in the picture.

That comes across to me as somewhat bad faith. Of course it is fantasy, but it is fantasy from a historical culture.

My ideal for a story like this is that the story should be as true as possible to how the early iron age Greeks would have pictured the story in their heads when Homer first told it.

Anachronisms are "fine" to me in this story if they're portraying bronze age from an iron age perspective. Less so if theyre using Roman perspectives.

Thats the angle I'm personally coming from when discussing "historical accuracy" in a fantasy.

I think people crying "historical accuracy" are just racists

I guess thats me now huh?

Why does criticizing Tom Holland as "too american" come across as racist?

I think I should clarify — terrible costumes and historical accuracy are two separate things. I want certain level of immersion, the costumes look ass and I'll think about the costumes being ass the entire time if I go see the movie

I guess I should clarify i dont see them separate at all? Historical inaccuracies aren't bad unless I notice them. Any historical issue is either immersion breaking or not noticed. My issue just like yours is immersion.

"Good" Roman costumes aren't what I want to see.

And I see no problem in a black actor/actress playing a character. My favorite piece of media on greek mythology is Hades and if you played that game... half of the pantheon are black people

No one worth talking to has the issue with them playing a character. I think this conversation is more about which characters and in which context.

Helen's casting is not nearly as bad as having Tom Holland or Matt Damon but I think we all know why she's the center of discourse.

I personally would not hold Hades to the the same expectations of being faithful to the source material as a direct adaptation like Odyssey should in my mind. I would like to see Nolan make the story of the Odyssey, not a Greek fanfic.

I have no problems with greek fanfics if thats the story, Hades or Percy Jackson or Kaos and would not come from the same "historical" angle for those

That's just not what I am interested in for this story.

I simply refuse to believe that the casting was made without them knowing this will cause a shitstorm. And I think they did it intentionally anticipating the shitstorm. It's free publicity and allows for certain details to be overlooked

I tend to agree with you, but I find it interesting people in this thread are accusing you of promoting a white replacement theory and saying you must be racist for it in the same way you're casting my historical critiques as racist.

Im wondering if there's more nuance and good faith people have learned not to speak lest be grouped together with racists.

It seems like youre looking for a benefit of the doubt for your particular view "not being racist" but not giving it out to others.

[u/oops_all_memes → u/WhatsTheHoldup]

Helen's casting is not nearly as bad as having Tom Holland or Matt Damon but I think we all know why she's the center of discourse.

Oh yeah, totally. The entire cast is garbage when you try to match looks to what you would imagine the Odyssey to be. I prefer to view it as "theater vs cinema" thing. Theaters rarely have actors playing characters who visually match them. And that's one of the reasons why I don't particularly enjoy theater. But that's not really about historical accuracy

Tom Holland will be Telemachus, right? I don't see it at all. And Matt Damon as Odysseus doesn't click with me either

I guess thats me now huh?

First of all, I haven't seen you express any opinions on that matter. And if you did in your previous comment, I must've misread it. Second, I think I might need to adjust my previous statement: "People who cry "historical accuracy" when talking about the casting of Helen and her only are racist". And let's face it, those are the majority

are accusing you of promoting a white replacement theory 

That's reddit. The world is on fire and people are on edge. While we're having this discussion I have another conversation here on reddit with a nazi explaining to me that Russian people are being replaced by migrants in a grand conspiracy. I'm not joking, you can open my profile, the last comments are mocking the imbecile. So people here accusing me of parroting rightwing opinions are hilariously off the mark. But it's okay, I understand the sentiment. The world is on fire, people tend to have kneejerk reactions to anything that might be perceived as aligning with nazis

[u/WhatsTheHoldup → u/oops_all_memes]

I prefer to view it as "theater vs cinema" thing. Theaters rarely have actors playing characters who visually match them. And that's one of the reasons why I don't particularly enjoy theater. But that's not really about historical accuracy

Oh yeah theater production gives no shits about historical accuracy and very few complain.

I think there is a bit of a difference as theater is inherently retelling the same story with different casts by design of having to put on a different show every night.

Movies are rewatched so there's more effort to have a "definitive version" that gets everything perfect for the next decade at least. There is no singular actor who plays Hamlet over decades in theater the same way Wolverine is played in a cinematic universe.

In theater if you dont like this current cast wait till next season.

Tom Holland will be Telemachus, right? I don't see it at all. And Matt Damon as Odysseus doesn't click with me either

Thats right. Terrible casting in my opinion. Lupita is third behind them in the badly casted department from my perspective, and its why after Tom and Matt I don't really have much to say besides this movie that on paper is made for no one else but me isn't for me at all.

First of all, I haven't seen you express any opinions on that matter.

I haven't in the thread sorry. I just do tend to care about "historical accuracy" in historical settings. A movie that is entertaining but also educational is always going to interest me over one simply made to be entertaining.

Again, I have no issue with A Knights Tale or 1996 Romeo and Juliet, or Inglorious Basterds not being true to history. They have their place. Not every movie has to be accurate to history.

I just think some movies like the Last Duel or Gladiator of even The Odyssey have more responsibility.

Its kinda a vibes thing thats hard to explain.

Second, I think I might need to adjust my previous statement: "People who cry "historical accuracy" when talking about the casting of Helen and her only are racist". And let's face it, those are the majority

I would say that's fair. Helen is the face of a discussion she's not nearly the worst offender on. And that's because this is a culture war battle, not history nerds like me expressing critiques.

That's reddit.

Nuff said. Lmao.